Odd_Oddsen访谈录
译文：Odd_Oddsen是挪威线上扑克玩家，他主打高额PLO现金局。由于一些原因，该玩家希望保持匿名。而highstakesDB有机会获得对该玩家的首次采访。
在过去的六个月里，你已经是pokerstars和Full Tilt高额桌的常客玩家了,但大多数人对你却知之甚少。你能说一下你是什么时候接触扑克的以及你什么时候开始打PLO的？我想应该是2004年吧,不过也有可能是2005年。我曾经看着我的兄弟打线上MTTs,并试着去寻找对手的漏洞( lol)。当时我才15岁,所以不允许我独立玩线上扑克，但他经常让我帮他代打,一直持续到我能打扑克为止。我于2007 / 2008开始打(那时我已18岁）.我主要打小额MTTs。并在MTT上取得了成功,但主要以娱乐为主,这样一直持续到2009 - 2010年。象往常一样,我打得顺风顺水,并最终取得了不错的成绩；我设法将我的帐户累计到$30k,但在随后大约六个月里又破产了。我对过去的情形进行反思,并评估了我之前所犯的错误。我决定给我的扑克人生最后一次机会,因此，我就存了$1,000,开始打$0.25 / $0.50 HUNL。从一开始,我就取得了巨大的成功,并在一个月内就将我的帐户积累到$10k,遵循的是30个买入的资金管理原则。我也听闻其它来自挪威的玩家同样在玩高额桌线上扑克时赢了许多钱，但他们是玩一种奇特的4张牌游戏,叫PLO(底池限注奥马哈)。随后我决定尝试将精力放到这个游戏上。我以我的$10k资金为基础,开始打$0.25/$0.50 PLO；同时我还买了一些PLO书籍及一本Bill Chen的书《扑克数学》。我认为这是游戏外你持续提升的一个不错的方式。不久,我就获得了真正的动机,因为我发现在这个游戏里赚大钱是有可能。正是这个时候我对扑克变得认真了起来.很快我发现PLO的波动比NLHE(无限德州)还要大，因此我将我的资金管理需求增加到每个级别100个买入。
毋庸置疑, PLO的涨落远远超过了NLHE,波动近似疯狂。在由中额桌转向高额桌的过程中,你是如何升级的?在打PLO的六个月里，我已经累计了$100k的资金,这为我打$5/$10奠定了基础。随后我出现了一些起伏,但我总是设法挑战自我,去对抗那些最优秀的玩家；我认为那是学习的最快也最好的方式,而且挑战也同样激励着我。我认为绝大多数的捕鱼者都是目光短浅的人,而这个游戏最终会把他们淘汰。在2010-2012期间,我开始尝试$25/$50级别,但由于尚未做好足够的准备(打得很差劲),结果不尽人意,运气也不济。不过事后再回顾,实际上,我还是很庆幸这次尝试失败，因为当时我还未成为最好的常规玩家，而这给了我更多的动机去变得更强，并在低额桌上积攒更多的资金。我已经在中额桌打了上百万手牌了，这使得处理牌已经成为我的本能：比如，你就是知道什么时候对手失衡了(如错误的吓唬时机，好的开三枪时机,等等)。但当我开始打$25/$50时,我的本能反应就不如在中额桌上灵光了。常规玩家在不同的场合有不同的Range，能更好地平衡Range。好的吓唬/开三枪的时机成为差的时机,因为他们已经知道你在做什么,也就是说你失衡了，他们要剥削你！随后我在$25/$50级别的尝试又失败了三次,但是在我第四次时,我已经准备好了，正如他们所说的:剩下的就是创造传说了。回顾过去，我第一次尝试的失败实际上应该是我扑克生涯中最大的成功,因为它给了我足够的激励，让我不断去完善，并通过不断地减少错误而不断地提升。
太好了,结果和你期望的一样。你也在欧洲的扑克室打吗,单挑还是最大6人桌？在我的扑克生涯中,我主要在pokerstars上打。我也在一些欧洲的扑克室打,但只是试水.因为 Pokerstars已经给我足够的空间了,它能够做更多更好的决策，而且pokerstars的软件平台更适合打多桌。此外，当你达到超新星精华级别时,反水达80%,这真是太爽了。我既玩单挑又玩最大6人桌。具体取决于哪个能做出更好的决策。我通常打最大6人桌,因为它让我更好地做出决策。如果经常能打12桌以上的单挑,我或许将更倾向于单挑。
既然在PLO中波动近似疯狂,为什么你还将你的精力放在PLO而不是NLHE上呢?在2008-2009年期间,我就决定将精力放在PLO上了,因为我看到了这个游戏的潜力。我认为这将是扑克中的下一个重头戏,因为许多无限德州玩家已经开始转到PLO上了。游戏有更多的决策和DU成分,而当前玩家还没有那么PLO策略；而且许多不同的策略都可以赢。我还认为PLO是一个更适合鱼生存的游戏，NLHE则不是。在PLO中，鱼慢慢地被榨取；而在NLHE中，由于波动较小，鱼很快地就被榨干了。在NLHE里，松-被动的鱼更多是由于翻牌前起手牌质量太差而受到惩罚的（在没有位置时用垃圾牌平跟3-bet,等等），因为鱼喜欢打每一手牌并看翻牌圈。这使得PLO成为他们的最佳选择,因为在PLO中起手牌质量造成的错误基本上可以消除，因为手牌质量相差无几。当然,要想击败鱼,你同样要打好翻牌后；如果你不知道如何打翻牌后,你就别想着像NLHE一样,仅凭Range不错的起手牌,就可以通过3-bet来对抗鱼玩家。这同样也让鱼玩家觉得在这个游戏中,他们也是有优势可言的!这种想法对整个游戏是极为有利的,对常规玩家也同样如此。鱼被慢慢"煮熟"，使得他们还会卷土重来，而且他们会持续很长时间呆在这个游戏里，长远看来，使得PLO成为一个可持续发展的游戏，这不同与NLHE。同样令人着迷的是在PLO中赢利的方式有很多；因为游戏还没有被弄明白，至少在100BB+。此外这个游戏还很复杂，暂时找不到类似的游戏来打比方，但我发现深筹码PLO和象棋倒是有许多类似的地方.在我看来PLO甚至更复杂,比如说固定的打法很少,而遇到的新情况每天都不同。基本上,我认为PLO比NLHE前景更光明,这就是我将精力放在PLO的主要原因。
你提到过PLO的波动比NLHE更大,因此玩家在资金管理方面的需要更多的买入。迄今为止,在你的生涯中遇到过让你不愿回首的下风吗？在我的生涯中我遇到过许多下风期。我曾有过两次100+买入的下风和无数50+买入的下风。我觉得这个游戏的波动太大了,而很多人都低估了其波动；今天你可能觉得是个大赢家,而明天你就有可能损失20个买入,即便你处于扑克生涯的黄金时期.这就是为什么PLO扰乱你的原因。故不带偏见地看待和分析你的游戏很重要,尽管这可能很困难.许多人不愿意批评自己,因此依我看来,从一个客观的视角看待你的水平的能力是很重要的。实际上,下风期所面临的最糟糕的事不是损失了多少钱或多少个买入（尽管这确实让人不爽),而是它毁了你的游戏,因为你开始调整你的打法并想找到一个新的来替代，或是尝试新的策略等等.当你处于下风期或你经历完下风期时,你的打法风格有可能和你原先的截然不同.当处于下风期时,最难的就是调整，因为你需要投入大量的精力来设法保持正常游戏,即便做到和平时一样,但难度却不可同日而语.
在这种情况下,和别人分享如何应对下风期及不受其干扰的方法则是非常有用的。现在混合赛的比重似乎增加了,所以你打算以后也涉及这些游戏吗,还是将来仅关注PLO？我已经开始试着学习混合赛中与PLO相搭的游戏了，特别是听牌游戏,我对他们也很感兴趣。我希望能精通其它游戏,但我有点高估自己的学习能力了,特别是Omaha Hi/Lo(高低奥马哈),真是太难了。几个月前,我曾在扑克之星打过这个游戏,盲注$1,000/$2,000,当时一直被Isildur1主导着.大约一个小时的时间,我就损失了将近$150k,因此在随后的一段时间里,我都禁止自已打所有最高级别的混合赛。不过等时机合适了,我还会再次尝试这些混合赛的。比如当PLO这个游戏干涸时,我或许第一时间考虑学习它们,当然可能会从小级别开始打起。
你不是第一个兴冲冲跳进这样血腥的限注比赛并损失巨大的PLO玩家；Galfond当年学习2-7三张换时就支付了$170万的学费。他最近创办了一个新的教学网站，你对教学感兴趣吗,或者被某个网站聘去当教练？我收到许多网站发来的教练邀请；不过我都推掉了。我觉得现在做教学视频不是很赚钱，除非他们给我一个非常好的报酬。我认为我应该将全部时间都投入到打牌上,专心打扑克。我可能会投资并指导一些很有才华的中筹码玩家打PLO,而不是教所有的玩家。不过,如果将来我能得到一个不错的回报时,我也可能会重新考虑加入某个教学网站，但是我希望保持匿名,这样我就可以有更多的选择来面对未来（我指的是在挪威），因此邀请条件必须极其丰厚到我只能说YES才行。
你有交情不错的高额桌扑克玩家吗?如果有的话,他们如何帮助你改善你的策略？我和几个高额桌玩家的交情不错。我主要通过自己来改进我的策略，不过当然我也会和他们中有些人讨论一些策略。具体我就不说了。
在你完成学业之后,你打算打扑克还是将来有其它的打算？我不知道我的扑克之路会走多久,但毫无疑问,我没想过把我的下半生都放在扑克上。当前要做的是完成学业,当我拿到我的学位时,我再计划将来。目前我利用空余时间学习,因为扑克占据了我大量的时间和精力。我认为上大学很有可能会让我和这游戏说再见,而这是最难抉择的；我真的建议其它扑克玩家在打牌的同时还是学点什么。打高额桌的日子压力真是太大了,就个人来说,我不喜欢每天都是六位数以上的下调。我也认为那不是我下半生想要做的.我倾向一个稳定的、没有波动的收入，不过眼下,我还没决定放弃,我还会在扑克上呆一段时间。哪天我失去进取心或不得不强迫我自已打时,我会停止打牌的。谁知道那一天什么时候到来呢？我只知道哪天我不再享受打牌了,就是我该放弃打扑克的时候了。
很高兴听到你说你想要完成学业,我相信其它职业玩家已经或正在做你所做的事: 打扑克的同时也在继续学业.我能想到的最著名的玩家就是Sauce了。当你升级时,你会遇到哪些困难,你是如何面对的？我从$0.25/$0.50 PLO一路升级到$5/$10 PLO时非常顺利, 在前12个月我的赢率是10bb/100 Hand，总手数是600k手牌。我感觉我欠了许多玩家；不过，我在$10/$20 PLO挣扎很久，我想我一整年都在那级别中枪。我想主要原因是我开了太多桌（16-24桌），而我的调整能力没有那些常客玩家好。在中额桌上我经常打16-24桌,练出很强的本能；我知道常规玩家何时失衡: 哪里他们吓唬太多，哪里他们会弃牌等等,这似乎像是我的第二本能,而这种本能是在打N多手牌才有的.当我升级到$10/$20时,这些本能不再起作用了, 因为那些常规玩家更能平衡! 游戏时, 我在中额桌上把握的开枪/吓唬的时机常常失效.因此，我不得不检查我的策略,查漏补缺.就像我在$0.25/$0.50 PLO所做的一样。我试着在游戏时去做更多的平衡,在我的Range中加入那些不合逻辑的手牌,等等.最终我开始在$10 $20级别上击败这些常规玩家了.这感觉真好! 从那以后我就意识到我拥有巨大的优势了。在我升级到$25 / $50 PLO时,情况很类似。我很高兴在前三次升级时都以失败告终。因为如果我在第一次就顺利通过的话,我肯定今天不可能打到这么高的级别。我说的千真万确。
在升级过程中你是如何提高的? 看视频，请教练,还是上论坛？我主要通过实践来提高；基本上我的扑克学习方式可以算是最难的了。在我打$2/$4 PLO时,我发现了TwoPlusTwo，在那里我通过阅读/发贴的方式或多或少得到了提升，当然也打了许多错误的牌。
在高额的单挑和最大6人桌中,你遇到的最难缠的对手是谁,能说一下原因吗？单挑：是!P0krparty，Ben86 urnotindangr2和Gus Hansen。Gus是所有玩家中我最大的劲敌, 他在最大6人桌中同样也让我很头疼。他的一些打法很巧妙, 总是迷惑我。他施压的时机也恰到好处,都是在我Range很弱的时候；他同样知道何时慢打。他真是一难缠的对手, 总是让人面临许多决定。在深筹码最大6人桌中：首先想到的是sauce123，ben86，Ilari FIN和isildur1, 我和他们对抗了很多手牌。（Galfond或许也算是吧, 不过我和他打的不多）。我不想深入地讨论他们每个人的打法，但是我可以告诉你,在和这些野兽打深筹码的PLO时,我总是不舒服。我还发现这些玩家每个人的打法都很独特,而这正是这项游戏的乐趣所在,赢钱的方式很多.在最大6人桌中30BB的短筹码：Jeans89, bernard - bb和The Liar。我认为这三人的30BB PLO打法很不错。具体我就不说了。
你更倾向玩哪个游戏：深筹码, 浅筹码还是小筹码？我倾向打100bb+的筹码。我认为浅筹码的可玩性不强, 因为有抽水,且优势很小。不过无论哪一种我都能打。我认为小筹码/30BB PLO没有乐趣,因为这基本上是两条街的扑克。起手牌的质量实在很接近,因此玩家的优势也越来越小。我认为30bb的扑克就像是为赌场开设的游戏,一年到头,除了庄家赢,其他都是输。我认为玩PLO就应该打至少100bb+, 这样游戏才充满乐趣,并且筹码越深,打法越复杂。我认为选择打深筹码PLO更加有趣。我认为浅筹码（30bb）不利于当前PLO的发展，长远来看也是如此。由于高抽水，30bb的PLO基本上变成扑克之星的赌场游戏。玩家提升和分享他们的想法真的很重要。我希望每个人贴出他们关于30bb扑克游戏所出现的问题的想法，可以贴在扑克之星30bb的贴子上，也可以贴在扑克之星PLO现金游戏高抽水的贴子上。
你是如何看待游戏中出现的各种打法风格，比如PLO，玩家中有象Ilari FIN这样依据直觉来打牌的，也有纯粹依据数学和游戏理论打牌的?你能分享一下你的想法吗?特别是GTO策略( Game Theory Optimal,最优游戏理论)。首先，我认为Ilari比人们在媒体上看到的要聪明得多。我相信他在游戏之余也下了很多工夫，至少比人们想到的要多得多。实际上,如果非要划分的话,从策略的角度来分,我认为在PLO主要的分三类:定式策略（Fixed strategy），剥削策略（Exploitive Strategy）和GTO策略：最优游戏理论策略（Game Theory Optimal strategy，GTO）。定式策略基本上是指依据自己的方式来打比赛或打牌,而不必考虑你的对手的打法风格。以NLHE为例：如果前位加注,我总会在小盲位用AQ平跟,我不会考虑加注者的下注的目如何,也不会考虑我的其它Range,这就是一个典型的定式策略。剥削策略是指你依据对手的风格和意图来制定你的策略。同样以上例为例：如果你的对手在EP位100%加注,且从不弃牌给3-bets，那么很明显,你应该用AQ在翻牌前3-bet价值下注.这里,我们根据对手的意图,采用了剥削策略而非定式策略，相同的局面,不同的策略.最优游戏理论策略（GTO）：实际上我不喜欢这个定义,因为它具有误导性；使用剥削策略本身就可以视为最优的游戏理论,即GTO策略。我认为人们所指的GTO策略应该是一种纳什均衡策略，即你的对手无论怎样改变他们的策略都无法从你身上获益,因为你完美地平衡了你的Range（理论上）。你的对手所得到的就是不赚不赔（理论上）。比如：比方说你在河牌圈下注1个底池；采用GTO策略（100%平衡），就是你33.3%的时候应该诈唬,66.6%的时候应该价值下注，因此不管你的对手如何决定----跟注或弃牌----他都赚不到钱。即无论你的对手如何决策,他都不赚不赔，至少理论上是这样的。在PLO中寻找并测量这个Range/频率是极其困难的,因为这个游戏太复杂了；光起手牌就有270,725种,加上与公共牌的组合达1,712,304种，告诉我当拿到一手牌时,如何在限定时间内通过下注量完美地平衡对所有给定的手牌呢? 当然,也有方法可以做出不错的评估，但我认为许多常规玩家总是处于不平衡中的（包括我自已在内）。我还认为有些时机在PLO中出现频率极低,过于保持平衡不会有太大作用。我觉得GTO策略很重要,特别是在对抗很难缠的对手, 至少它能确保你在对抗这些玩家时不会处于太大的下风。我还觉得GTO概念在限注游戏里也很重要，因为我认为它在限注游戏里实行起来要容易得多。我认为这也是当前限注游戏不是很流行的一个原因，因为这种游戏太容易测量出Range和频率了，正是由于有限的决策和少量组合，导致人们都处于最优策略这样一个境地。我认为当今绝大多数扑克玩家都混合使用这些策略,而不是单纯的某一个。我不想深入讨论我的对手是如何及怎样去做的。就我个人而言,我是将这三个策略揉和在一起来用的。我不想过多讨论我在游戏中是怎么应用的，我只能说我是以定式策略为基础,并根据我的对手意图来调整我的Range和我的频率,根据对手混合使用剥削策略和GTO的。
你对各种策略和对Ilari的想法很有趣。Sauce也曾说过他的打法千奇百怪,打法如同一个十足的赌徒,让他在桌上犯了很多错误。你说过扑克玩家在挪威不是很受欢迎。如果你告诉你的家人你打的级别的话,你的家人会做何反应呢?我赞同Sauce对Ilari的评价: "让人很恼火"。说实在的,我还没有告诉我妈妈我打的级别，她实际上也不知道我玩多少钱。不过我认为她是一个开明的人。我父亲倒是很支持。每周他都会和我通几次电话,寻问游戏和我的进展情况，还有其它玩家的情况等等.有次他甚至明确地询问"那个戴帽"的家伙玩得如何。他也在他的笔记本电脑上安装Pokerstars,这样他就可以时不时地坐下来看着我打牌。我记得有一天我收到这样一条短信："小心，那个叫Ilari的家伙想要做大底池"。真是笑死我了。当时我都笑出了声。我猜想他甚至知道那个叫Ilari的家伙根本不畏惧DU。
当你最开始玩时,你是如何做到连续打多个小时及打多张桌子的？在我很小的时候,我就玩过大量电子游戏，因此我对多桌驾轻就熟. 而我在2008/2009年度曾经受过一次严重的伤害, 30天里我的腿没有知觉。我整天都只能坐着,于是我决定在那期间疯狂地玩PLO。爱伤之前,我除了学习还有一份**，但在这30天里,我发现即便坐在家中,不去工作,仅通过玩这种奇特的4张牌游戏,我就可以在更短的时间里赚到更多的钱。当我康复时，我也结束打扑克，不过现在它又成了我的**。
很高兴听到你完全康复,而**打扑克肯定比你原先的工作更有钱途。祝你一切顺利! 感谢你的采访。非常感谢!
原文：
Odd_Oddsen is a Norwegian online poker player who specialises in high stakes Pot Limit Omaha cash games. The player wants to keep anonymity for several reasons. HighstakesDB have had the opportunity of interviewing the player in his first ever interview.
You have become a regular player in high stakes games on PokerStars and Full Tilt over the past six months or so, but most people do not know too much about you. Could you please explain when you were introduced to the game and when you started to play PLO?
I think I was introduced to poker in 2004 although it could have possibly been 2005. I used to rail my brother who played MTTs online and I tried to find leaks (lol). I was only 15 at that time so I couldn’t play online much myself, but he let me take over the control from time to time. As far as me playing poker, I started playing in 2007/2008 (when I turned 18) and I mostly played small stakes MTTs. I had some success in them and grinded some MTT’s for the fun of it until 2009-2010. I had a good run (as usual) and managed to bink some nice scores; I managed to build a $30k roll but then proceeded to bust it in approximately six months or so.
I thought about the situation and evaluated my previous mistakes. I decided to give poker one last serious shot and as a result, I deposited $1,000 and started playing $0.25/$0.50 HUNL. I had great success right from the start and in about a month, I had grinded my roll up to $10k with a 30 buy-in bankroll management rule.
I had also seen and heard that there were other players from Norway who were winning a lot playing high stakes online, but they were playing this ‘weird’ four-card game called PLO. I subsequently decided to start trying to focus on this game instead. I took my $10k bankroll and started playing $0.25/$0.50 PLO; at the same time I ordered some PLO books and Bill Chen’s book "Mathematics of Poker". I think that this is a very good tool for working on your game outside the tables. I soon got really motivated because I knew it was possible to make a lot of money in this game. It was during this time that poker was getting pretty serious for me. I quickly learned that the variance in PLO is way bigger than what it is in NLHE, and therefore I increased my BRM requirements to 100 buy-ins for each stake.
There’s no question of a doubt that the swings in PLO are much more than NLHE and the variance can be crazy. How did you rise through the ranks in the mid-to-high stakes games?
In about six months of playing PLO, I had built a $100k bankroll and was playing $5/$10 on a regular basis. I have had some ups and downs since then but I have always tried to challenge myself versus the best out there; I think that that is the fastest and best way to learn and the competition also incentivises me. I think that most of the bum-hunters are short sighted and the game will pass by them in the long run.
I started taking shots at the $25/$50 games between 2010 and 2012 that went poorly due to not being fully ready (in terms of playing poorly) and also running bad. In hindsight however, I am actually happy now that these shots failed, because I was just not ready for the best regulars out there yet at that time, and this gave me more motivation to getting better and grind more at the lower stakes.
I've played millions of hands at the mid-stakes, which does things with your instincts: for example, you just knew when people are unbalanced (e.g. bad bluffing spots, good triple barreling spots etc.). When I started to play $25/$50, my instincts were not as right/spot on as they were in the mid-stakes. The regulars there had different ranges in different spots and/or more balanced ranges. The good bluffing/triple barrel spots now become bad because they know what you are doing and now that you are unbalanced, they will exploit you! I consequently had three missed shots at $25/$50 but on my fourth ‘shot’ I was ready for it, and as they say “the rest is history”. Retrospectively, running bad during my first shots is actually the best run-good of my life as it gave me a ton of motivation to get better and keep on improving by cutting down on the mistakes.
Its good that it worked out well for you the way it did then. Did you start playing on Euro sites and was it HU or 6-max?
I have mainly played on Pokerstars during my poker career. I have played a bit on some Euro sites as well just to test the waters but I have always had my main volume on Pokerstars because it offers the most and best action by far, and the Pokerstars software is also just amazing for multi-tabling. Furthermore, the rakeback is ~80% when you reach Supernova Elite status which is huge.
I have always played both HU and 6-max. It depends on where the action is. I usually play 6-max because that’s where I get action. If I could get a 12+ table HU match going at a regular basis, I would probably prefer that.
Why have you focused your career on PLO rather than NLHE when the swings are crazier in PLO?
I decided to focus on PLO in 2008-2009 because I saw the potential in this game. I thought that this was going to be the next big thing in poker because many of the NLHE ‘specialists’ had already started to transition to PLO. The game had much more action and gamble in it and people hadn't figured out that much PLO strategy at that time; many different styles were winning.
I also think PLO is a much more fish friendly game than NLHE because of several reasons. A fish can go on mega-heaters in this game whereas in NLHE they usually bust really fast because of the considerably less variance. In NLHE the loose-passive (whatever really) fishes will get punished way more by doing equity mistakes pre-flop (flatting 3-bets with crappy hands OOP and so on) as fishes likes to play hands and see a flop. This makes PLO ideal for them as in PLO these equity mistakes are almost erased, because of how close the hand equities run together. In order to beat fishes you actually also have to play good post flop too; you can’t just wait for hands and 3-bet really strong ranges versus the fish like you can in NLHE if you don’t know how to play post-flop.This is also making the fish think that they have an edge in this game, which is really good for the games, and this is also somewhat true for the regulars as well.
The fact that fishes go on heaters will make them come back, and it will also make more games run around them for a longer time, which makes PLO a very sustainable game in the long run, unlike NLHE.
It’s also very fascinating that so many styles are winning in PLO; the game isn’t figured out yet, at least 100bb+. The game is also very complex and this analogy maybe stretching it a bit, but I can see many parallels between deep-stacked PLO and chess. PLO is even more complex in my opinion with less set fixed positions and new situations coming up on daily basis. I basically think PLO has a much brighter future than NLHE and that is the main reason why I have been focusing on PLO.
You mentioned the fact that the variance is greater in PLO than NLHE and a player therefore requires more buy-ins for bankroll management. Have you had any major downswings during your career thus far that you wouldn’t mind discussing?
I have had plenty of downswings in my career. I have had two 100+ buy-in downswings and a lot of 50+ buy-in downswings. I think the swings in this game are crazy and I think a lot of people underestimate the swings; you could feel like a hero one day and the next day you could lose 20 buy-ins even if you are playing the best poker of your life. This is why PLO messes with your mind. It is very important to view and analyse your game with as little biasness as possible although this can be hard. Many people do not like to criticise themselves so the ability to view your performance in a neutral perspective is a very important skill in my opinion.
The worst thing about a downswing is not actually losing X amount of money/buy-ins (even though that does hurt a bit) but it can actually be a disaster for your game as you start adjusting your game and come up with new styles, testing new strategies etc. When you are in a downswing or after you have been in one, you could basically be playing a whole different style than what you used to be playing. This is the hardest part to adjust to during a downswing, as you need to focus a lot of attention in trying to keep your game balanced in the same way as before however difficult it may be.
You share some interesting views on how to deal with downswings and being apathetic is certainly helpful in such a situation. It seems like action is increasing in the mixed/draw games so do you intend on learning those games soon or are you going to focus on just PLO for the near future?
I have been trying to learn some mixed games on the side of PLO, especially the draw games, as I am interested in them. I want to get good at them but I’ve over-estimated my skill level especially in Omaha Hi/Lo and really learnt the hard way. I jumped right into those $1,000/$2,000 games on Stars a few months ago and at that time they were running around Isildur1. I lost around $150k in about one hour so I blocked myself from all the highest mixed games for a while.
I am definitely going to give those mixed games another shot when the time is right. I will probably play a bit smaller to start with when the PLO games become dry in order to learn them first.
You are not the first PLO player to jump right into the nosebleed limit games and lose big; Galfond lost $1.7 million “paying his tuition” learning 2-7 triple draw. He has recently launched a new coaching site, are you yourself interested in doing coaching or being signed by a site?
I have had plenty of coaching offers from many sites; all of which I have turned down. I just don’t think that it is profitable for me to make coaching videos at this time, unless I get an exceedingly good offer. I believe that I should focus all my time on playing and working with the game for myself. I may stake and coach some very talented mid-stakes players instead of teaching the whole world to play PLO.
However I might reconsider the situation of joining a coaching site if I get a really good offer in the future, but I want to keep anonymity so that I can have all my options open in the future (here in Norway), hence the offer would have to be extremely good for me to say yes.
Are you friends with any high stakes poker players and if so, how have they helped you improve your game?
I am friends with a couple of high stakes players. I mostly improve on my game myself, but I definitely talk some strategy with some of them. I don’t want to go into much more detail than that.
Do you intend on playing poker after you finish your studies or do you have other plans for your future?
I don’t know how long I am going to continue playing poker but I definitely don't have plans of playing poker for the rest of my life. I am currently finishing up my studies and I will decide what to do in the future once I have my degree. I study part-time at the moment because poker takes up a lot of time and effort. I believe that going to the university to study feels like a break from the game and all the stress around it; I would really recommend other poker players to try studying a bit whilst playing.
The life at the high stakes/nosebleeds is really stressful and personally, I don’t like the fact of having six figure plus swings on a daily basis. I just don’t think that I want to do that for the rest of my life. I would prefer a steady no variance income, but for now, I will at least be around the poker scene for some time before I decide to ‘throw in the towel’. I will stop playing the day I lose motivation of getting better and/or have to force myself to play. Who knows when that day will be? I just know that the day I no longer enjoy playing the game is the day I will quit playing poker.
Its good to hear that you enjoy studying and I believe that other pros have done or are doing what you do by studying part-time whilst playing poker. The most notable name that comes to mind is Sauce. As you moved up the stakes where and how did you face some difficulties?
I progressed from $0.25/$0.50 PLO to $5/$10 PLO pretty smoothly and during the first 12 months I had an EV win rate of 10bb/100 at those stakes, playing a combined 600k hands. I just felt that I owned most of the regulars; however, I struggled a lot at $10/$20 PLO. I think I was stuck taking shots there for more than a year.
I think the main reason behind that was that I was playing way too many tables (16-24), and I did not adjust well enough to the regs there. I was used to playing 16-24 tables at mid-stakes and built very strong instincts; I knew when regs were unbalanced, where they were bluffing too much, where they would fold too much etc. It seemed like second nature to me and it was just instinct after playing so many hands.
When I moved up to $10/$20, those instincts did not work as the regs were more balanced and the spots I was barreling/bluffing at mid-stakes were often bad spots in these games. As a result, I had to really work on my game, plugging leaks again like I was doing when starting out at $0.25/$0.50 PLO. I tried to get more balance in my game and having hands in my range that didn’t make sense etc. I finally started beating the regs at $10/$20 which was the best feeling ever and then I just knew that I had a massive edge.
A similar situation happened to me when moving up to $25/$50 PLO. I am glad that I did run bad and lose the first three times I took shots because if I had won/run good when taking those first shots, I certainly wouldn’t be playing this high today. I can say that for sure.
How did you improve your game going through those stakes - did you watch videos, get coaching, read forums etc.?
I improved mostly by just playing; I have basically learnt poker the hard way. I discovered TwoPlusTwo when I was a regular at $2/$4 PLO, and from there I improved more or less by reading/posting in the forums, and just playing an absurd amount of hands.
Who have been the toughest opponents that you have faced at the high stakes tables both HU and 6-max, and why?
In heads-up: !P0krparty?, Ben86, urnotindangr2 and Gus Hansen. Gus is my biggest nemesis dollar wise out of all players I’ve played HU and he also gives me a headache at the 6-max tables. He does some very clever plays that tend to confuse me a lot. He is also really good to put the pressure in spots where I have weak ranges and he also knows when to slowdown. He is a really tough player who gives a lot of action.
In 6-max deep stacked: Sauce123, Ben86, Ilari FIN and Isildur1 come first to mind out of the players I’ve played a noteworthy volume against. (Galfond would probably be on this list as well but I haven’t played against him a ton). I won’t go into much detail about how each of them play, but I can tell you that I am not comfortable at all playing deep stacked PLO with these beasts. I also think each of these players represent a unique individual style/gameplay, which makes this game so fun as many styles can win.
In 6-max 30bb/cap: Jeans89, bernard-bb and The Liar. I think all three of these approach 30bb PLO really good. I don’t want to go into more detail than that.
Which game do you prefer the most: deep ante games, cap or shallow stacks?
I prefer playing 100bb+ games for sure. I think shallow stacks are almost unplayable because of the rake and tiny edges. I will however play whatever runs. I don't think shallow/30bb PLO is very fun because it is basically two street poker. The equities run really close together and hence peoples’ edges are getting smaller and smaller. I think 30bb poker will be like a casino game in about a year’s time as no one but the house wins.
I think PLO should be played with at least 100bb+ as the game is so much more fun and complex playing deeper stacked. I think that it is also more fun for people to rail deep-stacked PLO. I don’t think that the shallow (30bb) games that currently run nowadays are good for the PLO community in the long run as well. 30bb PLO has almost turned into a casino game for Stars due to the high rake. It’s really important that the players step up and share their thoughts.
I would like everyone to post their thoughts on the ongoing problems regarding 30bb poker right now at Stars in the 30bb thread, and the high rake in PLO cash games in the Pokerstars thread.
What do you think of the different styles of play in a game like PLO in terms of players like Ilari FIN who say they play on instinct and feel, and others who play purely based on the maths and game theory? Can you also share your thoughts especially in regards to GTO (Game Theory Optimal) strategy.
First of all, I think that Ilari is a lot ‘smarter’ than what people perceive him to be through the media. I believe that he does a great deal of work on his game outside the tables as well, at least more than what people think.
I actually think there are three major different styles in PLO in terms of strategies if you have to define them: ‘a fixed strategy’, ‘an exploitive strategy' and ‘GTO strategy: Game Theory Optimal strategy’.
‘A fixed strategy’ basically means that you are playing the game and the cards you are dealt in your own way regardless of how your opponents play. An example from NLHE: “I always flat AQ from the SB if early position opens regardless of his tendencies and regardless of what I do with the rest of my range.” This is a typically defined as a fixed strategy.
‘An exploitive strategy’ means that you are dictating your strategy based on your opponents’ patterns and tendencies. Same example as above: “If your opponent is opening 100% of hands from EP and never folding to 3-bets, then we should obviously 3-bet AQ for value pre-flop.” Now we are using an exploitive strategy and not a fixed, since we are doing different things in the same situation, based on our opponent’s tendencies.
A ‘Game Theory Optimal Strategy (GTO)’: I actually don’t like this definition since it could be misleading; using an exploiting strategy can be just as game theory optimal as a GTO (Ne) strategy. What I think people mean when referring to a GTO strategy is referring to a strategy that constitutes to Nash equilibrium, which basically means that your opponents can’t benefit from changing their strategies since you are (in theory) perfectly balanced with your ranges. The best your opponents can do (in theory) is to break-even. For example: let’s say you are betting the size of the pot on the river; having a GTO strategy here (being 100% balanced) means that you should be bluffing 33.3% of the time and value-betting 66.6%, so regardless of your opponents decision he is not making any money by calling or folding. Your opponent is break-even on his decision regardless of his action, at least in theory.
Finding and measuring these ranges/frequencies in PLO is extremely difficult because of the complexity of the game; there are 270,725 different starting hands, combine them with 1,712,304 boards combinations, and tell me how to be perfectly balanced for all given choices during a hand including bet sizing, before the time bank runs out on all your tables etc. There are however techniques for making good estimations, but I think many regulars just end up being unbalanced anyways (including myself). I also think some spots come up so infrequently in PLO that being super-balanced should not be very concerning.
I think a GTO strategy is very important versus really tough opponents to kind of ensure yourself that you are at least not losing a ton to a given regular. I also know that this GTO concept is really important
in limit games, but I however think it is much more easier to execute this strategy ‘perfectly’ in the limit games. It is one of the reasons that I believe the limit games are not running regularly nowadays, because it is easier to “measure” ranges and frequencies, because of “limited” choices and significantly fewer combinations, and thus more people have got to a stage of optimal play.
I think most of today’s poker players use a combination between all of these strategies and not one purely. I don’t want to go into detail about how and what my opponents are doing for obvious reasons.
Personally I would say that I play a mixed set of all these three strategies. I do not want to go too much in detail about my game for obvious reasons, but I have my “foundation” (fixed strategy) of things I do with my ranges, and from there I adjust my frequencies based on my opponents’ tendencies with a mixture of ‘exploitive strategy’ and ‘GTO’ depending on my opponents.
It is interesting to hear your thoughts on the different strategies and on Ilari. Sauce has also said that “he plays it up a ton” as regards to acting like a total gambler and making mistakes at the table. You mentioned that poker players are frowned upon in Norway. How did your family react when you told them the stakes that you play?
I can say +1 to Sauce’s comment for Ilari “playing it up”. Frankly, I haven’t told my mum what stakes I play, and she doesn’t really know the amounts of money involved. I do however think she has an idea.
My father is very supportive. He calls me several times during the week and asks how the games have been, how I have been doing, how the other regs have been doing etc. He even used to ask specifically about how that “man with the hat” is doing lol. He also installed Pokerstars onto his laptop so he can sit and rail me from time to time. I remember one day I got a text saying: "Be careful now, that Ilari guy likes to play big pots". That really made me laugh.
Haha, that made me laugh as well. I guess even he knows that Ilari isn’t afraid to gamble as well. How did you manage to play poker for many hours and across multiple tables when you first started playing?
I played a lot of computer games when I was younger, so multitasking skills came very natural to me. I basically had a serious nerve injury back in 2008/2009 and I couldn’t feel my legs for 30 days. I was just sat down all day and I decided to hence play a ton of PLO during that time. I used to have a part-time job whilst studying, but during these 30 days I figured out that I could make considerably much more money in less time by playing this weird four card game sat at home instead of going to my old job. Whilst I was getting better from the injury, I just ended up playing poker, and now that is my part-time job.
It’s good to hear that you have fully recovered from your injury and playing poker must certainly be a better part-time job than your previous one monetary wise. I hope all goes well for you in the future and it was great speaking to you.
Thank you very much. 先挺感觉很有价值，谢谢楼主的分享。赞 好文 期待LZ的佳作 谢谢 转载请注明出处 哦. 搬个地方,借花献佛. monox 发表于 2015-8-17 16:05
转载请注明出处 哦. 搬个地方,借花献佛.
哦， 对哦，我忘记了，哈哈。 你说对了，加油！ 我最近也想学习下plo 怎么联系 有中文书籍推荐么
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