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2p2译作——Opening Up Your Eyes and Your Game(采用奔放流打法)

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发表于 2011-7-7 13:09:10 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
又是一片长文,文中的观点很激进——作者强烈推荐了奔放流的打法。$ s7 s/ L+ \6 z& ?: C5 L# H1 Z
看的我很害怕,结果后半部分提到了bankroll的问题,果然,因为我的bankroll不够,所以根本不敢这样打。' s7 @7 b4 Y) ?# Y- M" v& u& H
其中一个例子—— 1个顶尖的奔放流牌手,一个月内输了50个买入;这种打法是高风险、高收益啊,心脏不好的请慎用。
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) K8 @* X2 p, c& q& S! D' ORecently I have had some interesting discussions with a few regulars, and some interesting points were brought up from which I learned quite a bit, and I figured it might benefit players on here if I shared a little of what I learned and OBserved. & ?2 C3 r& t7 B  R/ Y1 E5 D' a
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最近,我和一些regulars进行了一番有趣的讨论,并且让我获益良多,我觉得对大家也是有好处的,我会把我学到的和观察到的内容分享给大家。( q) i6 x0 l. v! a. D6 m
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A lot of players seem to be stuck in a mode, whatever that mode may be. They have gotten to midstakes playing a particular way, and even though they may have somewhat adjusted to the different dynamic of this game, they are still unwilling to open their game up whether they recognize it or not, and/or its simply hard for them to do certain things differently as it has all become routine. This generalization encompasses a lot of solid midstakes players, and it is whom I am directing this post towards.2 h: i( O, d- G+ I* ]4 p7 u

. J- }- _- V2 j" g% g1 X很多玩家是遵照某种模式一成不变的,无论是哪种模式。他们按照某种固定的方式来打牌,从不会按照牌局的不同来调整,无论他们是否意识到了这点,他们还是不愿意放开了打,或者对他们来说不遵照某种程序来打牌是非常困难的。这在很多不错的中额玩家里是普遍现象,这也是我这个帖子想要知道的目标群体。
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$ G+ W6 i+ _0 f2 x' eThese players may have pretty big leaks in their game (that may very well be unknown to them, and really not that big of a deal to them at this point in time as far as the games they are playing in go) and still be winning players or even be doing very well, simply because the vast majority of their opponents are not exploiting their leaks, and also have much bigger leaks themselves. As these solid players move up, they encounter more players that are capable of exploiting their leaks and that also possess fewer themselves. Just as the solid grinder is preying on the fish to pay off his big hand, the 30/20 in the 10/20 Party game is preying on the solid grinder's leaks. I don't think people realize how crazy the dynamic at a game like the 10/20 6max on party can be, and after all, midstakes are (hopefully) only a gateway for you, getting you ready for the next level. I will touch on this game dynamic within the next few parts.$ H1 W  u# _; F6 A8 l

& F- O1 o, V3 n7 X6 o* I这些玩家可能存在着明显的巨大漏洞(而且他们自己还不知道,在他们的目前的牌局里还没有暴露出来),并且他们还是赢钱的玩家,原因很简单,因为他的大多数对手不会利用他们的漏洞,并且他们的对手的漏洞比他们更多。当这些不错的玩家升级后,他们就遭遇到更多能利用他们漏洞的对手了。不错的ginder靠让fish为他们的大牌买单获利,而30/20的玩家在10/20的牌局里靠利用ginder的漏洞来获利。我不认为人们能认识到在Party Poker的10/20的6人桌有多么疯狂,毕竟,中等额度是一条通往希望的道路,在你准备好升级到下一个级别前。我会在下文中谈谈这个游戏的动态。
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 楼主| 发表于 2011-7-7 13:10:45 | 显示全部楼层
1) Reraising Preflop(悬牌圈再加注)
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' {- b# P7 f: D4 S0 r, mMany midstakes players have a very tight reraising range. They will reraise their big hands, and even though their range is so slim, they still make far more money on these hands than they should be making, given how well defined their hands tend to be in certain spots. These same players are content to just call preflop with certain hands, and even though their decision to call may be +EV, they don't even consider their third option, which is to reraise. In certain spots calling may even be your worst option. When you are on the SB facing a button raise or even button facing a CO raise, what do you accomplish cold calling a raise with the majority of your hands?

很多的中额玩家的再加注范围太紧了。他们只再加注他们的强牌,即使他们的范围已经很紧了,他们因你改改可以用这些牌赚到更多的钱,但是他们的范围太容易被确定了(没翻好)。这些玩家玩家满足于用特定的牌在悬牌圈跟注,尽管他们跟注的决定可能是+EV的,但是他们从来没有考虑过其他的选择——再加注。在某些场合下跟注可能是最差的选择。当你在SB面对BTN的加注,或你在BTN面对CO的加注,你怎么能用同样的牌去冷跟注呢?(没翻好); X3 e- E! `6 j% x7 F  b1 F

$ [' f+ S2 I9 f9 d3 M8 e! S" VSure, calling may be +EV in some of those situations but many don't even consider the +EV situation a reraise would set up for them and how much greater that EV would be than that of calling (the same thing often applies in many spots as far as raising vs overlimping, where both may be +EV but raising may be a much better option). You likely have a +EV situation right there preflop, and if you get called you will often have another +EV situation postflop, even disregarding your actual hand. By reraising you gain momentum, you over represent your hand and force them to make a hand, and your reraising range obviously increases, both decreasing the implied odds of your opponents calling and trying to crack your big hand, and increasing your action on your big hands as observant players will realize that you are capable of reraising light. The higher up in stakes you go, the more observant players you encounter.

当然,跟注在某些情况下是+EV的,但是很多人没有考虑到再加注是否也是+EV的,以及再加注所增加的EV是否大于跟注(同样的比较也可以应用在加注和跛入的选择上,同样是+EV的,往往加注要比跛入更好)。你在悬牌圈很像要选一个+EV的选择,如果你被跟注了,你在翻牌后还有另一个+EV的机会(c-bet??),不论你的牌是什么。再加注是你获利的要素,你的强力表现迫使对手要用成牌对抗你,并且你显著增加了你的再加注范围,并且减少了对手跟注后的隐含赔率,和减少用边缘牌战胜你的强牌的机会,在你有强牌时增加行动能让细心的对手认识到你可以轻易的再加注。在筹码级额度越高的级别,你会遭遇到的细心的玩家越多。
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+ Q( f% d8 J! l( zAs far as calling, with clunkier hands like KQ/AJ you will often be folding the best hand when you miss (which will be most of the time), and even when you do get a favorable top pair flop, you will often be unsure of your hand if you are facing a lot of pressure in certain spots. Your hand carries reverse implied odds. With more deceptive hands your actual implied odds to call the LP preflop raise are generally very poor, as LP's raising ranges tend to be very wide. You are also going to be missing the majority of the time, or getting forced off of your more marginal hands (which will often be the best hand) by aggressive players. In both cases you also lack initiative. You have to ask yourself what you are really accomplishing by calling with some these hands.

用像KQ/AJ这种难打的牌来跟注,你经常会因为错过了翻牌(大多数时候都会错过),而放弃可能是目前最好的牌,就算如你所愿凑成了顶对,你在碰到对手施加很大压力的情况下,也不能确定你是否是最好的牌。你的牌有反向隐含赔率。而你跟注后位的欺骗性的加注是很差的打法,因为后位的加注范围是很广的(这句可能翻译有误)。你也会经常错过翻牌,面对攻击性选手也会经常被迫放弃你的边缘牌(和好牌一样)。这两种情况,你都不够积极主动。你在选择跟注之前,必须要问你自己一个问题:“我真的想用这手牌去跟注吗?”。' u5 o$ h7 d! |! ~1 t! g8 H
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Just about all of the biggest winners in the 10/20 game on Party have a very "opened up" game. To be even more specific, I believe 4 of the top 5 have close to 30/20 stats, and one is an amazing 47/29. They are awesome post-flop players, and their analysis of situations is dead-on the majority of the time. One other thing that they are very good at doing is spotting and setting up profitable situations preflop. Over and over and over and over. The reraising ranges of some of these top players are astounding. These players are squeezing each other left and right, and have absolutely no problem reraising/rereraising light. You will see full stacks go in with relative garbage. If you didn't know any better, you may chock it up as donk-on-donk violence, when the hand may have just went down between the 2 biggest winners in that game. And believe me, fireworks do fly when they are at the table together. And they aren't the only ones you will see this kind of action from, either. Their preflop game is so much different than what the average midstakes player is used to that it can really be amazing. Their variance shoots up, but the number of +EV situations they are involved in does too, and of course their profits do as well.

Party Poker10/20里所有的最成功的玩家都有采用“奔放”的方式来打牌。更具体讲,我相信,最成功的5个人里,有4个人的统计值是30/20,而另一个是令人惊异的47/29。他们是令人敬畏的翻牌后对手,他们大部分时间里对局势的分析都是完全正确的。他们另一个成功的地方就是在悬牌圈的攻击性来获利。一而再,再而三。这些顶尖玩家的再加注范围是令人吃惊的。这些玩家会互相采用挤压打法,并且对于再加注/再再加注能很轻易的控制好。你可以看到用垃圾牌全下。如果你不知道怎么做更好,你会被夹在donk-on-donk的暴行之间,而牌局会在两位顶尖选手打到摊牌。相信我,赶快离开这样的桌子。他们不会只像你表面上看到的那样行动。他们的悬牌圈打法和普通的中额玩家大不相同。他们的开局非常多变,但是他们关注于+EV最大的选择,并且他们能赢很多钱。
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 楼主| 发表于 2011-7-7 13:11:44 | 显示全部楼层
2) Firing the Second Barrel(第二道转牌圈下注赶人)8 l& \* s0 {  j6 H, U1 U, H

( N& p% X6 C9 v: ]$ ~( K( [Everyone knows and loves the continuation bet. Far fewer people fully appreciate the value of his big brother, the second barrel. They make use of him from time to time, but far less than they should. The continuation bet is a transparent play that tends to work often enough on its own merit, even though everyone is fully expecting you to bet at almost any flop with any hand you came in raising with. If you are raising a fairly wide range of hands, and betting at a lot of flops, someone might actually put 2 and 2 together (!!!) and realize//exploit the fact that you don't have anything on the flop a good amount of the time you are betting. If you run into a player that is playing back at you light, and you simply give up on the turn the majority of the time when you get called on the flop and you don't have anything, you are begging him to keep running you over and you are throwing money away if you yourself are coming in light and then playing bad postflop. If you would be giving up the pot by checking, but you realize that firing the turn will probably get him to fold often enough to be +EV disregarding any outs you may or may not have, there really isn't a decision to be made as far as what your play should be.
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所有人都知道并且喜欢继续下注。而只有少数的人认识到了它的兄弟——第二道转牌圈下注赶人(second barrel)的价值。他们偶尔会使用它,但远远少于所有应该使用second barrel的时候。继续下注是透明的打法,每个人都会知道你会在悬牌圈加注后,用任意两张牌,在任意的翻牌情况下,继续下注。如果你在悬牌圈加注的范围相当广,并且翻牌后继续下注也很多,有些人结合两者,会意识到大部分时间你下注并没有牌,并加以利用。而如果你的对手这样反击你的话,你在狠多时候,什么牌都没有,翻牌圈的下注被跟注后,不得不在转牌圈放弃,你这种差的翻牌后打法会损失很多钱。(没翻好)如果你意识到了选择check是放弃彩池,但是你是否也发现了无论你是否有outs,在转牌圈下注很可能迫使对手弃牌,是足够+EV的选择,这是一个你应该但是你没有做出的决定。(没翻好)/ u+ S, T' I% r
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Not only is the situation itself +EV, but future implications are there as well. When your opponent realizes that he has to expect a turn bet from you a high percent of the time and you aren't just giving up whenever he calls you and you don't have a very good hand, he is going to be much less inclined to contest pots against you with weak holdings. Now your continuation bets are going to be getting more respect from this player, and you are further bettering your overall situation. This also leads to forcing your opponents into making mistakes, and also leads to you getting more overall information in various subsequent situations and reading hands better. Everything leads to you making more money, though.
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不仅这种选择本身是+EV的,并且对之后的牌局也有影响。当你的对手在翻牌圈跟注后,还很有可能面对一个你在转牌圈没有很好的牌时的下注,他会减少用差牌来跟你争夺彩池的次数。现在你的继续下注会得到这位玩家的尊重,并且你可以用你全部的牌去继续下注。这也会使得你的对手犯错,并且让你得到更全面的信息,能更好的读牌。总是,所有的事情都是让你赚更多的钱。
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. X9 `: h% K9 ]9 gThat being said, I am not advocating players to fire the second barrel without considering all of the important factors, and firing again will be lightning money on fire in many spots (as their hand will already be well defined as unfavorable for you after their flop call in a particular spot and/or the situation is not a profitable one for other reasons). I am simply pointing out that this is a very common spot in which players are passing up on clearly profitable situations and are really hurting themselves in the long run. They can become much stronger players by utilizing these situations.2 m0 d" J  n8 c
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但是,我并不鼓吹玩家不考虑全部的重要因素,就second barrel,在某些情况下这样做会损失钱(他们已经有足够对抗你的牌/或者有其他的原因导致这么做不能获利)。我需要指出的是,这是一个非常普遍的情况,而玩家轻易的放弃这个赢利的机会的话,从长期开看是损失惨重的。他们可以利用这种机会变得更强大。
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/ I4 P- T! c' V0 I: z4 X( [Going back to the discussion of higher stakes games, the top high stakes players are generally firing that second barrel at a drastically higher rate than the solid regulars at mid stakes, and there isn't any hesitation. That isn't to say they are just brainlessly firing away, although some spots are so clear that it really doesn't require much thought. They simply play very well postflop, and playing very well postflop indicates that they are good at spotting +EV situations, which the turn brings very often. The second barrel is really just the tip of the iceberg, though.- @/ p+ W. s% A/ r" ]
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回到高额游戏的讨论,顶尖的高额选手second barrel的频率比起不错的中额regulars要高出很多,并且他们没有任何犹豫。但这并去意味着你可以随便乱来,尽管有些情况可能非常明显,真的不需要太多思考。他们在翻牌后玩的非常好,翻牌后打得好也就意味着他们很善于做出+EV的选择,那么经常会看到转牌。second barrel仅仅是冰山一角。
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 楼主| 发表于 2011-7-7 13:12:32 | 显示全部楼层
3) Giving Yourself a Bigger Cushion(给自己更大的备用金)
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I have observed the bankroll discussions on this forum and have a few comments on the subject. If you asked me a couple months ago whether I could have a 10 buyin downswing playing my normal game without any real tilt in there, I really dou** I could foresee it happening. Now 10 buyin downswings are not only a possibility, but they are expected/inevitable, as are long breakeven stretches. Poker is very good at painting an illusion because of how deceptive and su**le variance in poker can be, and how many small things go into running bad and running good that you do not pay attention to. Swings are inevitable over the long run. This is obvious and everyone thinks they realize this, but people don't fully grasp it. Swings become exponentially more violent as you move up and your winrate drops.
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6 L8 d7 h* ?1 J" p* d我发现这个论坛关于bankroll的讨论已经有了很多评论了。如果你问我几个月以来,我是否有打法正常,没有情绪化的10个买入的下风期,我真怀疑我可以预见它的发生。现在10个买入的下风期不仅仅是可能而已,他们是可以预见/必然的。扑克非常善于绘制一个幻想,因为扑克非常具有欺骗性和狡猾的变化,并且有很多小事会让你成功或失败,并没有引起你的注意(这句完全没翻好)。从长于来看,波动时不可避免的。这很明显,每个人都认为他们了解这点,但是人们并没有真正理解它。在你升级后,赢率下降后,波动是指数形式的。5 `( N1 Z( I! M

% f( P0 a  d& @- m- ]Some people are perfectly fine with giving themselves a small cushion, and have no problem hopping up and down in limits at a crazy pace on the whim of their latest upswing or downswing. Others give themselves a small cushion without knowing what can possibly happen. A 2p2 regular who is a consistent winner at 5/10NL moves up to 10/20 with 30-40 buyins, and gets crunched for 10 buyins. That can seriously be devastating to that person. To give a point of reference, the biggest winner in one particular game was apparently recorded as to having TWO 25 buyin downswings last month alone. More than one very good player has been known to run at almost breakeven for 100k hands.
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5 O1 h: {* V# L& J9 ?. H有些人可以用很少的备用金打的很好,并且不会有在上风期和下风期不会有剧烈的波动。而另一些用很少的备用金时不知道可能会发生什么。一个2p2的5/10NL的稳定赢利的regular,有了10/20的30-40个买入升级上去,然后输的只剩10个买入了。这会真的毁了一个人的自信。有一个例子,一个顶尖玩家,在上个月,输了2个25个买入。不止一个众所周知的好玩家在10万手牌里持平。
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; I% S4 U4 m+ t7 M( d8 N" B$ OSome posters have said that your "move up" shouldn't be a big event. You should gradually move up, and be willing to play multiple levels as your bankroll allows whenever you spot a good game. You can't really argue with that, but most people do have a "regular" limit for them where they put in the bulk of their hands. When they make the next level their "regular" game, some people do not give themselves enough cushion because they do not realize that a big downswing near the beginning of their move up is very well within the realm of possibility. The players who were moving up from 100NL to 200NL and from 200NL to 400NL very quickly as soon as they attained 25 buyins for the next level probably have never experienced a decent sized downswing, and they think that if they drop 5 buyins at 5/10NL it will prove to them that they are not ready for that level. As I have been pointing out, they can lose far more than that and still have evidence of absolutely nothing if they do not analyze their situation properly.+ w. W5 c' P$ D9 w  g

' o) z: S7 P, K9 a有些人会说“升级”不要一下子跨越。你应该渐进,并且在你的bankroll允许的时候,打多个级别,知道你找到适合的级别。你可能不同意这个观点,但是大多数的人有“regular”级别的限制。当他们升级到下一个“regular”; J* Q5 k3 \$ d8 d
级别是,有些人没有准备足够的备用金,因为他们没有意识到刚开始可能会有很大的波动。一个玩家,一攒够25个买入就快速的从100NL升级到200NL,有从200NL升级到400NL,很可能是没有大的下风期的经历的玩家,并且他们认为如果他们在5/10NL输了5个买入,就证明他们不足以在这个级别立足。像我已经指出的那样,他们没有正确分析他们的情况,他们还会输更多。4 H) M1 ?# s+ F+ O3 _

+ l( G' c, ]0 g& D9 g: \  A) FWhat it comes down to is realizing what goes into variance and what it is capable of, and adjusting according to what you are willing to accept. If you like the rollercoaster thats up to you and its your choice. But if your goal is a nice steady ride up the money hill with a few bumps that aren't going to wreck your ride in more ways than one, then you may want to consider giving yourself a bigger cushion.
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+ w+ g6 `& ^! r5 h0 \2 t; W# S3 s5 x你需要按照你的承受能力来调整你的bankroll。如果你喜欢过山车,这也是你自己的选择。但是如果你的目标是稳定的赢钱,那你就需要准备一个多一些的备用金。

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未来我像StuUngar一样狂!

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 楼主| 发表于 2011-7-7 13:13:10 | 显示全部楼层
4) Conclusion(结论), L4 P0 D: j3 ^/ {) `) Y  _
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Hopefully this post helps people realize whats in store for them at the higher limits, helps some people become more willing to open their game up and attempt changing their thinking a little and getting better, as its really going to be necessary if they want to continue moving up in stakes and doing well in the higher games, and hopefully those players that aren't trying to ride a rollercoaster both emotionally and bankroll-wise have a slightly better grasp of the capabilities of variance. I also want to add that I am nowhere near the skill/experience level of some of the players discussed here at this point in time. I am simply relaying my thoughts and observations.1 T- I3 M* A" Q& T# \, `3 h) f

) l6 V1 Z; M+ M6 q7 D, d4 g希望本文能帮助人们意识到要多准备一些备用金,帮助到一些人变得更加奔放,并且尝试改变他们思考少,并做的更好,因为这是必须的,对于那些想升级的人来说,并且希望大家不要做过山车,并且保证足够多的bankroll。我最后再加一句:我的水平比起我举例的顶尖玩家还差很远。我只是把我的思路和观察发表上来。
未来我像StuUngar一样狂!

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论坛认证会员论坛银奖章论坛金奖章论坛本月灌水王论坛本月在线王本月最佳版主最佳新人奖论坛终身荣誉奖章论坛赞助会员梦幻军团FT VIP

发表于 2011-7-15 22:27:14 | 显示全部楼层
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通讯邮箱地址 pokerstart@hotmail.com
个人博客空间   www.cnpokerblog.com

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论坛认证会员论坛本月灌水王论坛本月在线王PS月赛冠军

发表于 2011-7-16 20:49:55 | 显示全部楼层
顶一下,不错的文章!

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论坛认证会员

发表于 2011-8-15 11:58:42 | 显示全部楼层

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发表于 2011-8-27 11:55:11 | 显示全部楼层
又学到一招,不过不敢乱用

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发表于 2012-2-23 22:40:11 | 显示全部楼层
认真学习来了

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发表于 2012-3-3 21:19:58 | 显示全部楼层
感谢老大的这些文章

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发表于 2012-3-28 18:22:37 | 显示全部楼层
还是不敢乱用

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论坛本月灌水王

发表于 2012-5-15 09:10:04 | 显示全部楼层
看过不少太明白

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发表于 2012-8-29 14:33:54 | 显示全部楼层
位置原来是那么的重要

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发表于 2012-9-6 13:10:33 | 显示全部楼层
膜拜神贴,后面的请保持队形~
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